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Just another day in paradise......
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Tarheel
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 16565
Location: South Boston
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 Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: |
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double post...see below.
_________________
“Among natural rights are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” ---> Samuel Adams
Last edited by Tarheel on Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tarheel
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 16565
Location: South Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| tom mclaughlin wrote: |
And Tarheel, while it's a fairly obvious point, fees for water and sewer are not the same as taxes. |
Sorry, I forgot, fees is the new word for tax.
| tom mclaughlin wrote: | | On the subject of the courthouse, yes it's a security risk, as WHM and Duck pointed out, and yes, it'll be expensive to fix. Judges (more specifically, the Supreme Court of VA) are not powerless to demand that changes be made. Mecklenburg built a new courthouse complex and the county adopted biannual tax payments to finance the construction (split tax payments have the effect of creating of one-time windfall for counties and cities). In light of what others have experienced, Halifax County should consider itself lucky to get as much use out of the courthouse as it has. |
We already have biannual taxes, and are you suggesting a temporary tax to build a new courthouse? Kinda like the temporary tax for the building of a jail? I have been told that county stickers were imposed for that reason many years ago as a temporary tax....If this is true...I have a question? Since the completion of the jail...do we still pay that sticker tax?
You did not answer my question. Let me ask it another way. Do you wonder about the prudence of this;
5 new deputies (3 full time), with associated expenses, to guard the courtroom that are only in session (according to Jeff, is he correct?) about a third of the year? Sheriff Noblin said that the new deputies will not be responsible for the clerks office, as "the attentive staff will continue securing themselves".
Perhaps I am misunderstanding....all I am doing is asking for clarification as to the need for this particular additional expense.
_________________
“Among natural rights are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” ---> Samuel Adams
Last edited by Tarheel on Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tarheel
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 16565
Location: South Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| tom mclaughlin wrote: | | Well, I admit, I had to go back and look at this one before taking Wayne Conner at his word. Turns out he's somewhat right: in 2002 the per capita local tax burden in Halifax County was $462.52. In 2009 it was $839.82. |
You should have stopped there.
Your Bill Cosbyesque fun with numbers aside, he is right.
I know you think everyone should pay even more, but admit it....Mr. Conner was right.
_________________
“Among natural rights are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” ---> Samuel Adams |
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Tarheel
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 16565
Location: South Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| tom mclaughlin wrote: | | I think a better question for Wayne Conner to answer is, if local tax collections have risen so much, why hasn't the county's annual school contribution not risen accordingly? |
That seems to be a legitimate question. I know that part of the answer will be that they are paying 140% of the state mandate, but some further explanation would be nice.
Hey, aren't you a reporter?
Perhaps you might ask the members of board of supervisors that question and do a story on it.
While you are it, fact check the Sheriffs request. If it helps you want to question what he says, pretend that instead of an independent, he is a republican. That way if the fact check does not add up, you will enjoy pointing it out so much more. 
_________________
“Among natural rights are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” ---> Samuel Adams |
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tom mclaughlin
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Tarheel, sorry - I don't waste my time with people who argue in bad faith.
You wrote above:
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We already have biannual taxes, and are you suggesting a temporary tax to build a new courthouse?
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Would you do everyone the favor of citing the exact wording where I suggest that we raise taxes for a courthouse renovation? Because you can't. Because I never did.
If you want to have a debate, fine, but don't expect anyone to play along if you can't extend the common courtesy of not twisting their words beyond recognition. |
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Tarheel
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 16565
Location: South Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| tom mclaughlin wrote: | Tarheel, sorry - I don't waste my time with people who argue in bad faith.
You wrote above:
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We already have biannual taxes, and are you suggesting a temporary tax to build a new courthouse?
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Would you do everyone the favor of citing the exact wording where I suggest that we raise taxes for a courthouse renovation? Because you can't. Because I never did.
If you want to have a debate, fine, but don't expect anyone to play along if you can't extend the common courtesy of not twisting their words beyond recognition. |
Boy that's a really nice deflection! I give kudo's for that one. Good job!
Latch onto one comment that you can attack me on, and ignore the other comments made. Wow. Nicely played.
| Tom Mclaughlin wrote: | | Mecklenburg built a new courthouse complex and the county adopted biannual tax payments to finance the construction (split tax payments have the effect of creating of one-time windfall for counties and cities). In light of what others have experienced, Halifax County should consider itself lucky to get as much use out of the courthouse as it has. |
No, you did not say that in clear working, but the implication was there. You are too shrewd to actually admit in clear, unobtuse wording many of the positions you hold.
Since we already have the biannual property tax, and presumably the county is already using all the income taken in from taxes and fees, yet there is still "not enough to go around"....how exactly do you propose we pay for major renovations or a new court house without a new tax? I assumed you favored a temporary tax (although, as i pointed out there is no such animal), but do you support a straight up permanent tax?
On a side note, although I do not think I twisted your sentiments here. I wonder, have you ever twisted my words, or that of conservative politicians, or talk show hosts you disagree with. Before you answer, everyone already knows the answer is yes, and routinely. SO spare us the faux incredulity.
_________________
“Among natural rights are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” ---> Samuel Adams |
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Tarheel
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 16565
Location: South Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:16 am Post subject: |
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This just hit me.
Isn't there some magic stimulus "free money" coming our way for courthouse renovation?
Wonder if we will ever have our taxes raised to pay that back ?
_________________
“Among natural rights are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” ---> Samuel Adams |
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tom mclaughlin
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Tarheel wrote:
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Latch onto one comment that you can attack me on, and ignore the other comments made.
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The incentive to ignore someone when they have a habit of misrepresenting your positions is rather high.
On the topic at hand - what to do about the courthouse - I haven't really examined this issue and don't have strongly held opinions on it, but I think the two schools of thought basically boil down to this: try to muddle through (Oakes) or spend additional money on operations to cover up for an outdated facility (Noblin). Both approaches are perfectly defensible, especially given current budget difficulties, but when such fellow political travelers as Wild Handyman, Duck and I agree that the courthouse poses a security risk, well, it's probably a security risk.
Chances are you can get along fine without a major overhaul. Then there's the chance you could have a VA Tech-like incident and everyone will point fingers over nothing being done. Pretty much the pattern in these matters, IMHO.
And by the way, Tarheel, you aren't fooling anyone with this insistence on replaying the Sheriff's election. Time to get over that one. |
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1093ras
Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 13075
Location: from Buffalo Junction to Riverdale and back
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| tom mclaughlin wrote: | | And by the way, I just wasted 20 minutes of my life putting together this short summary. |
I am sorry you consider it a waste, I found it very helpful and appreciate your effort.
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Blessed are they who can give without remembering and take without forgetting
(Author unknown)
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tom mclaughlin
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Oh, and regarding this Wayne Conner business, while it may be true that Halifax County is collecting twice as much property tax as it did in 2002, I think most people would look at a claim like "property taxes have doubled!" and ask whether that's true for them. And the answer is no.
Tax rates have stayed fairly constant (the exception was a boost to pay for the school construction/renovation program) and most of the increase in the past nine years derives from rising property values. That's another can of worms, I know, and one that merits more scrutiny than it's received, but along with rising home/land/farm values you also must account for the simple fact that a lot of commercial and residential development occurs over nearly a decade's time. That's going to bring in additional tax revenue, as are rising property values. Can you buy property for the same price you would have paid in 2002? Sometimes yes, a lot of the time no. Rising tax receipts reflect this reality.
All this is a long way of saying that it's a lot more accurate to look at adjusted numbers rather than comparing apples and oranges, which is what you get when you put 2002 and 2009 tax collections side-by-side without accounting for changes in the economy during that time. In other words, Wayne Conner was engaging in a bit of demagoguery here, big surprise coming from a politician, I know. |
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dtalbott
Site Admin
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 13692
Location: Got a one-way ticket, going the wrong way.....
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I just wish the bank felt my property and house were worth the assessed value.
_________________
Quid custodit ipsos custodes?
if I would have shot them when I first wanted to, I’d be out of prison by now. |
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Tarheel
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 16565
Location: South Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I never said it is not a security risk, and think that obviously it needs to be secured. However, Noblin's request does nothing to secure the building (re; Duck's concerns) only asks for more money on several new personnel for the purpose. I know that upgrading the building in not in his job description, so I questioned what seems to me to be his excessive requests with regard to personnel to secure the courtrooms.
| tom mclaughlin wrote: |
And by the way, Tarheel, you aren't fooling anyone with this insistence on replaying the Sheriff's election. Time to get over that one. |
SO because I supported Jeff in the last election, any comments, questions, concerns I may have or (gasp) make public are immediately declared suspect?
I have a couple of things to say in that regard.
1. MW supported Noblin in that election on this forum, and said he has concerns about the request being made. What about that?
2. Does that same standard of public support/non support = invalidity hold true for you? Since you publicly supported Noblin in your paper...are any defenses you may make regarding him immediately suspect? Or is the validity of your journalism perhaps suspect when you simply regurgitate a request by him without questioning it.. After all you publicly supported him?
I know it is easier to say..."Oakes and Tarheel just do not like Stanley" and disregard any comments we make about him or his running of the office. But the questions still remain.
Does the Sheriff need 3 full time and 2 part time new officers to secure courtrooms that are not in session every day?
Or might his major and captains who are not, I assume, regularly on patrol rotate that duty, along with the ones already doing it?
_________________
“Among natural rights are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” ---> Samuel Adams
Last edited by Tarheel on Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mw
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 676
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| tom mclaughlin wrote: | Oh, and regarding this Wayne Conner business, while it may be true that Halifax County is collecting twice as much property tax as it did in 2002, I think most people would look at a claim like "property taxes have doubled!" and ask whether that's true for them. And the answer is no.
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That's funny, I don't care who you are.  
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The Lord gives, government taxes it away. |
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tom mclaughlin
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 952
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Bunny, thanks. I guess my assessment of my post was colored by the fact that it was for Tarheel's benefit.
Like that's a productive use of one's time ... |
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Tarheel
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 16565
Location: South Boston
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| tom mclaughlin wrote: | Bunny, thanks. I guess my assessment of my post was colored by the fact that it was for Tarheel's benefit.
Like that's a productive use of one's time ... |
AWWWW, for my benefit....that is sweet.
I find it just a little strange though, that most of that post to which you referred as being a "waste of 20 minutes" was a response to another poster and not me.
In that 'wasteful' post you seemed to be saying that property taxes had not gone up that much, but indicated that it was from an increase in sales taxes.
I got that from this;
| Quote: | | Can't exactly remember when the new Wal-Mart opened, but you would agree that an event like that would boost tax collections? |
Please correct me, if I am incorrect in my deductions.
Anyway; question. Who pays the sales taxes?
_________________
“Among natural rights are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can.” ---> Samuel Adams |
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